Curse

Hella Good · Mar 29, 2006, 11:32 AM // 11:32

K... we clarified somewhere a few pages ago that the dupes come on TOP of the 300 new skills. It's actually 300 new + 30 dupes; the dupes weren't announced. There is at least 4-5 people, including myself, saying this... We also managed (believe it or not) to get to a point of actually discussing which these skills are and whether duping them does add the supposed "strategic depth" or not.

I sometimes wish people at least quickly scanned through what has been said in a thread before posting.

CKaz · Mar 29, 2006, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Cooper

farming just got easier

yes I guess that's part of it too and the suprising thing

it buffed already popular pvp and farming techniques
it might have even opened up a couple that weren't viable

I'm refraining from saying too much about specific build thoughts tho as I'm one to test stuff out first tho and I didnt waste the time I had for FPE caring about their dupe move. Just seems like an odd move on so many levels.

Core skill balanced with more recharge seems a lot more interesting than spending 2 skill slots - sure its another way to balance I suppose, but I'm just not seeing a lot of depth added to make your bar more repetitive.

CKaz · Mar 29, 2006, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

I sometimes wish people at least quickly scanned through what has been said in a thread before posting.

Hella, kudos for perservering...

I'm not sure what it is about these forums but they come in numbers to squelch any kind of thought or discussion, like we assaulted them personally or something. It's just a game, we're discussing a mechanic that for at least a few of us was initially jarring - it was unexpected - and what it might mean.

The Fox · Mar 29, 2006, 01:31 PM // 13:31

The "duplicate" skills add build variety and create more possible character combinations!!! YEAH!!!!

TheArrow · Mar 29, 2006, 01:38 PM // 13:38

I can honestly say that this is the most retarded thing ever posted on Guru. Online petitions are looked down upon anyways and you people are using one to complain for no reason? Some helpful advice: leave your house by exiting through the front or back door. Sit down and soak up the sun, it does a body good.

Snowman · Mar 29, 2006, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

There is at least 4-5 people, including myself, saying this...

Just because people a few people are saying it, doesnt make it factual!

Especially as there is a lack of official clarification! personally.. it takes more than a few people 'saying' it on forums for me to be convinced that its actually true!

some time ago people were 'saying' that factions will have 16vs16.. which is obviously not true.

The point is..

Regardless if you have listed these skills or not, it doesnt matter, because if indeed they ARE additional, then it kind of makes the whole discussion moot, it doesnt matter... its like complaining about receiving 15 cookies instead of the 10 you orderd.

so if there is any quote, article or official confirmation, please find it... then I forget about reading this thread.

Hella Good · Mar 29, 2006, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

Just because people a few people are saying it, doesnt make it factual!

Especially as there is a lack of official clarification! personally.. it takes more than a few people 'saying' it on forums for me to be convinced that its actually true!

some time ago people were 'saying' that factions will have 16vs16.. which is obviously not true.

The point is..

Regardless if you have listed these skills or not, it doesnt matter, because if indeed they ARE additional, then it kind of makes the whole discussion moot, it doesnt matter... its like complaining about receiving 15 cookies instead of the 10 you orderd.

so if there is any quote, article or official confirmation, please find it... then I forget about reading this thread.

Er... just count them yourself? There is a list of skills both here and on Wiki. If you see 30 per profession instead of the announced 25... you kind of figure there is 5 extra... It's not a matter of personal opinion, it's all over the place for everyone to see.

And it has nothing to do with getting free cookies or whatever you wanna call it, it has to do with questioning it's logic, balance implications, and practicality. That's why we got to discussing the actual skills to see if the move really might do what Anet claims it will or no.

Loviatar · Mar 29, 2006, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tric

/signed

I think Anet are lying to their fans (it's that dire) when they say "each profession has 75 new skills". But they don't. Anet also said that these "new" skills are radically different from the old ones... Dare I say, HAHAHAHAHAHA?

HI
ARE YOU SIMPLY UNABLE TO READ OR ARE YOU READING COMPREHENSION CHALLENGED?

FOLLOWING IS A QUOTE FROM THE FACTIONS FAQ THAT HAS BEEN THERE FOR A VERY LONG TIME WHICH SAYS YOU ARE AN IDIO.......

Quote:

What kind of new content will I find in Guild Wars Factions?

A total of 300 new skills, including 90 new elite skills, for the two new Factions professions and the six core professions from Guild Wars

ARE YOU ABLE TO DEVIDE 300 BY 6?

WHERE DOES THAT EQUAL 75?

let me do the math for you ......how about 50?

EDIT

SINCE IT SAYS 300 FOR ALL 8 PROFESSIONS YOU COULD SAY 75 EACH (150) TO THE NEW 2 PROFESSIONS WITH THE REMAINING 150 SPLIT 8 WAYS AS WELL

Emik · Mar 29, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Dunno if this has been posted yet..

I do like the idea of having two similar spells/skills albeit that they have a little tweak.

I was scrolling through my skillslist with a Priest of Balthazar and stumbled on the new necro skills.
Some curses have been added and then my eye fell on it.

The new skill 'Shivers of the Dread' is the EXACT same one as Spinal Shivers.
I mean... i don't mind having a 'similar one' like perhaps when they get hit by dark damage instead of cold damage then ok but it's the EXACT same one.

Hopefully they'll change this

Emik · Mar 29, 2006, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

HI
ARE YOU SIMPLY UNABLE TO READ OR ARE YOU READING COMPREHENSION CHALLENGED?

FOLLOWING IS A QUOTE FROM THE FACTIONS FAQ THAT HAS BEEN THERE FOR A VERY LONG TIME WHICH SAYS YOU ARE AN IDIO.......

ARE YOU ABLE TO DEVIDE 300 BY 6?

WHERE DOES THAT EQUAL 75?

let me do the math for you ......how about 50?

EDIT

SINCE IT SAYS 300 FOR ALL 8 PROFESSIONS YOU COULD SAY 75 EACH (150) TO THE NEW 2 PROFESSIONS WITH THE REMAINING 150 SPLIT 8 WAYS AS WELL

It's not 300 skills for all professions mate.

It's 75 for the new ones (Assasin and Ritualist) and 25 added ones for the originals.

so (2 x 75) + (6 x 25) = 300

Loviatar · Mar 29, 2006, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emik

Hopefully they'll change this

nope

they said the ones duped were intentional dupes and added on purpose.

these are in ADDITION TO and NOT REPLACING any of the new 300.

again this was done on purpose and not as a temp placeholder while the *real* skill would go later

EDIT

HI

CHECK THE TIME OF MY EDIT ON THAT

GOOD CATCH THOUGH

HIT 8 INSTEAD OF 6.......MY OOPS

back to reading comprehension 101 for a refresher course for me also

Kaospryx · Mar 29, 2006, 04:39 PM // 16:39

I can definetely see the synergistic effect you've been talking about, Thom. Personally I feel it's still a bit early to make some judgment calls. My thoughts are that if Anet wanted Factions only to have some of the basic and necessary skills, they would've just put them in the core list. However, since this is not the case, it is evident that the purpose is to use these skills as duplicates on the skill bar, otherwise, there wouldn't need to be two copies of the skill.

Now, I can definetely see some strategies with these doubled skills, such as doubled Ihex, or Desp Blow combined with balanced stance, or Zojun's + Dodge for running chars, but a few other skills I see no point for. Is it truly necessary for two tiger's furies? I'm pretty sure 1 would simply blackout the other, and either way, it's just a waste on the skillbar.

CKaz · Mar 29, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

I question the 'depth' too though - is it deeper to eventually plug up your already limited bar with copies of the same skill? We have 100s of skills across 2 classes to fill up... 8. Sure I'm thinking about possibilities here now too but it just seems an odd move, and initial reaction remains 'meh' for me.

Again back to MtG, sure there you used duplicate cards [up to 4] but you had a 60+ card deck. Here you have a bar of 8, often one taken up with some kind of rez [unless soloing]. There are strategies, sure, but I'm not sure the trend is something particularly encouraging or interesting - certainly not as interesting as adding new skills with different twists into the mix, rather than a different name.

And yes omg we know they didnt hit the number of new skills provided, can we get past that? My gawd.

Guess we'll see - looks like we gottem either way.

Thom · Mar 29, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaospryx

I can definetely see the synergistic effect you've been talking about, Thom. Personally I feel it's still a bit early to make some judgment calls. My thoughts are that if Anet wanted Factions only to have some of the basic and necessary skills, they would've just put them in the core list. However, since this is not the case, it is evident that the purpose is to use these skills as duplicates on the skill bar, otherwise, there wouldn't need to be two copies of the skill.

Now, I can definetely see some strategies with these doubled skills, such as doubled Ihex, or Desp Blow combined with balanced stance, or Zojun's + Dodge for running chars, but a few other skills I see no point for. Is it truly necessary for two tiger's furies? I'm pretty sure 1 would simply blackout the other, and either way, it's just a waste on the skillbar.

Tiger's Fury has me stumped as well, but for each loser on the doubles list there are multiple winners. I can't pick the winners now, but I look forward to people trying to harnass this new twist.

Theos · Mar 29, 2006, 10:11 PM // 22:11

I don't see much of an affect of the vampiric touch and touch of agony dupes. Vampiric touch is already 15 energy, its not an attack skill, and thats half of ranger's energy with a bow. Throw in touch of agony there went mostly all of your energy.

But for kicks lets say you have a staff! Or Wand/OffHand! You have a wooping 49 (50) max Energy! Two vamp touches... well there went your energy. Throw in those ToA and poof. Now you may say more spammability, I say wtf. They have what 5 second recharges? Hell 3 was it? Thats a REAL difference... no wait its not.

Kaospryx · Mar 29, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Um, the point of using it with a ranger is the expertise, which decreases the energy cost of it, since it's a skill, not a spell. It wouldn't cost 15E per cast after expertise is factored in.

Theos · Mar 29, 2006, 11:16 PM // 23:16

How is that possible, does expertise not say ATTACK skills, not skills. This is a bug if it does reduce the cost. Unless it some how says attack skill on vamp and ToA which I don't think it does.

Squizzy · Mar 29, 2006, 11:29 PM // 23:29

This thread is completely wrong... whoever made it..

They doubled the skills so that people that only have Factions< will have some of the same sort of skills as the prophecies do. If you press k and sort by campaign.. you will see that you got the core skills, for both games and then the prophecies and factions campaigns.. theres doubles simply because some of the skills people use alot should be on both.. but arent included in the core skills...

the 300 is without the duplicates btw.. gaile gray said it

Vilaptca · Mar 29, 2006, 11:29 PM // 23:29

I don't know if this has been said before, but maybe some of the duplicates, ones that just don't make sense, were made into a Factions skill, because they wanted Factions-only users to have it, but didn't want it in the core skills because they didn't want it in future expansions. I think makes some sense...

Mercury Angel · Mar 30, 2006, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theos

How is that possible, does expertise not say ATTACK skills, not skills. This is a bug if it does reduce the cost. Unless it some how says attack skill on vamp and ToA which I don't think it does.

Expertise reduces the cost of everything other than spells. Attack skills, skills, shouts, preparations, traps, glyphs, stances, nature rituals, and binding rituals.
It only claims to reduce attack skills, preparations, and traps, however.

Whether it's a bug or a poorly written description (as is NOT uncommon when dealing with Anet, to be bluntly honest) is debatable, though seeing as it's been this way for as long as I can remember (before the official release of the game), I'd have to say I doubt that it is a bug.